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 Tim |
Revelation Classes Audio |
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Posts: 1551 (10/11/08 11:48:42) Guest |
For anyone interested, I am teaching verse by verse through Revelation in our Wednesday night serves at Oasis Christian Church. I am posting the audio mp3
recordings, Power Point presentations, and handouts on our answersinrevelation.org site.
Tim |
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rhawes73 |
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Posts: 41 (10/18/08 14:23:44) |
Tim,
Thanks for the study on Revelation. I'm looking forward to the rest. In the meantime, if and when you have an opportunity, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know what you think of the Greek scholarship in this article concerning the Mark of the Beast. I don't know what you believe about the nationality of Antichrist, or the makeup of his coming kingdom, but the article is an interesting look at the issue of the Mark, and even more potentially plausible given your translation of Revelation 1:2, where John says that he reported what he "perceived." - Robert |
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Tim |
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Posts: 1554 (10/18/08 16:49:40) Guest |
Robert,
I'm not buying it. What this article claims is simply not possible. It fails to take into account two very important points: 1. The oldest manuscripts spell out the numbers, (six-hundred, sixty, six) rather than merely using the three letters that have these values (666). 2. The early manuscripts were written in the uncial format, (all caps with no spaces between words). The lower case (cursive) style used for comparison did not exist. That article seeks to compare more modern "miniscule" (cursive) Greek (found in modern interlinears) with the Arabic. That style of writing did not exist until several centuries after Revelation was written. I have a photo of Codex Alexandrinus (4th-5th century) of Rev. 13:18 at the following link. http://www.oasischristian...rg/air/666_manuscript.jpg Tim
Last Edited By: Tim
10/18/08 17:24:07.
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rhawes73 |
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Posts: 42 (10/18/08 19:06:49) |
Thanks for the feedback, Tim. I guess that pretty well shoots that theory down, although it did seem intriguing on the surface.
- Robert |
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PeaTearGriffin |
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Posts: 57 (10/31/08 17:35:25) |
Tim wrote: Hi Tim, Are you sure that is a picture of Codex Vaticanus? The manuscript of Vaticanus that I have seen has "666" in the "Chi Xi Sigma" 3 letter format. By the way, you bring up very good points about the shortcomings of the Islamic "Bismallah" theory of 666. God bless :) P.S. personally I am not sold on either idea. I think the standard gematria explanation of 666 has its pitfalls too. For instance, assuming we translate the person's name into Greek, do we just add up the value of the letters of the persons first name? Or first and last name? Or First, middle and Last names? Do we include titles (e.g. President, Ayatollah, etc) in the name? EDITED TO ADD: oops nevermind, I misread... its codex alexandrius and not vaticanus.
Last Edited By: PeaTearGriffin
11/01/08 06:41:31.
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Tim |
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Posts: 1562 (11/01/08 16:40:43) Guest |
Vaticanus is missing the entire book of Revelation. The other very early uncial manuscript, Sinaiticus (Aleph), agrees with Alexandrinus that I posted
previously. If you click on the link I posted earlier, you will see both Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus. To my knowledge, ALL of the older uncial manuscripts
spell out the numbers.
Tim
Last Edited By: Tim
11/01/08 17:00:58.
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rhawes73 |
The 144,000 and Jerusalem | ||
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Posts: 68 (12/15/08 17:48:14) |
Tim,
While I was listening to your latest Revelation class, where you discussed the significance of the 144,000, I got curious about how that matches the demographic in Jerusalem today. If the 144,000 is an exact figure (and given how it is detailed in Revelation, I would think so), and 2/3 of the Jews in Jerusalem are destroyed before the Second Coming, then 144,000 x 3 gives us a total of 432,000 Jews living in Jerusalem at that time. Interestingly, the total population of Jerusalem in 2007 was 747,600, of which Jews accounted for 64% or 478,464 persons. According to Wikipedia, the Jewish population of Jerusalem has been steadily declining over the last few decades. But I thought it was very interesting that the total number of Jews living there now is very close to the number that would need to be living there for the prophecy of Zechariah 13 to leave us with 144,000 sealed Jews at the time of the Second Coming, and assuming that the number 144,000 in Revelation 7 is an exact figure. Interesting. - Robert |
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Tim |
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Posts: 1574 (12/15/08 19:13:29) Guest |
Thanks for the research, Robert. I may use that in the class (with the caviat, of course, that Wikipedia is not the most authoritative source).
Tim |
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rhawes73 |
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Posts: 69 (12/16/08 13:13:21) |
Here is another site that presents much more detailed info on Jerusalem's demographics, and discusses the city's future: Realities on the Ground:
Jerusalem 2007-2025. It lists the current Jewish population at 67% of the total.
- Robert |
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crazy mark |
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Posts: 256 (12/18/08 18:29:33) |
My question is, how are we to know what the population of Jerusalem will be at the End of Days? With a rebuilt Temple, I would imagine Israel will be
experiencing a short-lived renaissance, if you will. I would think the Jewish population would swell significantly during this time. Don't you think?
Mark |
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rhawes73 |
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Posts: 73 (12/19/08 09:41:23) |
Mark,
From what I've read, Jews are slowly migrating out of Jerusalem for two main reasons: 1) the high cost of real estate, and 2) religious tensions in the city. Personally, given the history of the city, I would have thought that more Jews would be trying to relocate to Jerusalem, but the opposite is occurring. I suppose it all depends on how the temple is rebuilt, and when Antichrist comes on the scene with his false peace. But even in ancient times, most Jews seemed content to live elsewhere and visit the temple on occasion. That may continue to be the case when the new temple goes up. I'm sure it will spark a renewal of Israeli pride, but whether it would spawn a migration I don't know. - Robert |
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