Yuku free message boards

Thanks so much for posting these! I listened to all three available sermons tonight and really enjoyed them.

The topics of seeking Christ's kingdom first and following His commandments have really been pressing on my mind lately, so these discussions are very timely for me. Indeed, I believe that the most significant problem with the church today is that Christians have gotten so caught up in following the teachings and methods of men (specifically these cults of personality in evangelicalism), and living for temporal things, that they've forgotten their obligation to follow Christ and seek the kingdom first. I'm reminded of how Peter was able to walk on the water until he took his eyes off of Christ, after which he began to sink. In John 21, Peter, who has just been told that he will die a martyr's death, asks about what will happen to John. In response, Jesus simply says: "What is that to you? Follow me." That's really the heart of the Christian life right there in a nutshell. "Follow me."

I look forward to more!

Also...thanks for including the music. Unfortunately, the church I presently attend has gone over to using praise music almost exclusively, and I really miss hymns. I have no problem with praise music itself (I'm also fond of Southern Gospel), but nothing compares to the old hymns of the church.

- Robert

John 16:33 - "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Tim,

When you have a moment, could you post the math portion of the lesson you just did on prophecy? I checked the Notes section of "Introduction II" on the Answers in Revelation site, but I don't see anything there right now.

If I'm figuring this right (I'm no math wizard), the general time frame would be:

From Adam's creation: 4004 + 2008 = 6012 yrs
From the birth of Seth: 3874 + 2008 = 5882 yrs

This leaves us with a difference of 130 years (the time from Adam to Seth). How do we narrow this down further? I heard you mention taking off a certain amount of time for every generation, but I haven't come across anyone who has done that on the net. I've just run a few searches though, so that doesn't mean anything.

According to the Jewish calendar, this is the year 5769, but I don't know all of the intricacies involved in their calendar, so I'm not sure how that really works out. I honestly don't think we have 200+ years left. World events make think it must be much closer than that, maybe not even 50 years distant.

- Robert

Thanks. I started with that 4004 date because I thought that it was possible for Adam to have sinned not long after his fall (maybe the same year as he was created, although this is not likely). He probably did walk with God there for awhile before he fell, but I thought I'd look at that as the most extreme date in order to calculate the full window.

- Robert

edit -- I just had a thought about Adam's correlation to Christ: the "second Adam." This is complete, total and utter speculation, but Jesus is supposed to have died when he was about 33 years of age. I wonder if Adam might have sinned at about the same age? I guess it depends upon just how closely Jesus parallels Adam (physical death paralleling spiritual death?).

Thinking a little more on this...Jesus rose 3 days after his death, and then remained for 40 days before ascending. From the speculation I've seen, it was about 10 days between the ascension and Pentecost, making a total of 53 days following Jesus' death until the birth of the church. Now, if we view the birth of the church as parallel to the birth of Cain (and view the days in terms of years), we would add 33 to 53 and get 80. So if there is anything to this parallelism, Cain might have been born to Adam when Adam was about 80 years old. This fits well within the figure of 110 years that you provided.

Again, this is all assuming I'm not taking the parallelism too far. But if you do the math from here, the numbers become interesting indeed:

If Adam was created in 4004 and sinned when he was 33, then he sinned (and the 6000 year countdown began) in the year 3971. Add 2008 to that and you get 5979. Subtract this from 6000 and you get 21 years until the beginning of the 7th millennium (2029). Subtract 7 years to account for Daniel's 70th Week and the week would begin in 2022.

If, however, you assume that Christ was actually born in 3 or 4 BC, as most scholars seem to think, the numbers change a bit. If you assume 4004 to 4 BC, then the beginning of the 70th Week would fall in 2018 and the second coming in 2025.

So, pure speculation, but interesting, nonetheless.

Thanks for the additional info, Tim.

I understand and agree with what you said about potentially leading people astray with too much speculation. It's interesting to play with theories but we can't base too much on what we don't know. Christ gave us the signs He wants us to look for, and the instructions for what He wants us to do in the meantime; that is what is most important.

Thanks very, very much for yesterday's sermon, Tim. It was gutsy, and very much needed; it should have been heard far and wide.

I've found myself saying much the same thing over the last few years. It astonishes me that Christians feel a need to support Israel in absolutely everything it does when 1) Israel is apostate, and 2) the Bible reveals that it had an extremely poor record of following after God's will even during its heyday. There is absolutely no reason to believe that, simply because Israel wants something, God is on their side in that matter. Nor should we be trying to "usher in the kingdom." God will see His will fulfilled in His own good time, just as He brought His Son forth in the "fullness of time." Also, this hardline, unqualified support for Israel among U.S. Christians has had the effect of hardening our view of Arabs to the point of hatred. I think that many Christians, and some Christian leaders, take real pleasure in seeing Arab communities bombed and embargoed. I've seen a real callousness in that area (Christians talking about "socking it to the 'ragheads,'" etc.), and it cannot possibly be pleasing to God to see his people take pleasure in the sufferings of others for whom Christ died, no matter how different they are or what their governments might have done.

Your point about Christians needing to concenrate less on politics and more on sharing the gospel was dead-on. In my own circles, I've felt like a voice crying in the wilderness on this issue. And while your point concentrated on foreign policy, I think it also applies domestically. Christians have embraced the state and are actively using it to try and force their values down the throats of unbelievers. This has had a two-fold effect: 1) it has legitimized the state's increasing power, including its increasing interference in the family, education, and other social matters, and 2) it has weakened the church by de-emphasizing the life-changing power of the gospel and by making Christians appear as tyrants in the view of unbelievers. I can't find one single admonition on the part of Jesus or the apostles to the effect that we have some duty to impose our political preferences on others, but this has become almost an obsession in the church today. Indeed, when asked to judge between two men, Jesus (who could have rightly judged) asked: "Man, who made me a judge over you?" (Luke 12:14) Are the servants greater than the master? What gives us the right to tell others how to live when Jesus Himself refused to do so? Unfortunately, it's difficult to raise such points in evangelical circles without being burned in effigy. And meanwhile, we're reaping the whirlwind in both areas as we lose control of our families while fighting for control of Washington, and as unbelievers grow hard toward the gospel because they find Jesus' followers to be so offensive.

Anyway, I didn't start off to write this much. I just wanted to express my appreciation. You had at least one voice in the amen corner.

- Robert

I agree that we've passed the point of no return and will likely see persecution begin in the near future, probably starting with expanded "hate-crimes" laws such as are already in effect in Europe and Canada. Private schooling (including home schooling) is also going to come under fire, most likely in the form of regulations that will make it difficult, if not impossible, to operate legally.

We have hard choices ahead of us. Fortunately, even if we don't know all the details, we know how it turns out in the end.

- Robert