Hey PFRS!
I've really enjoyed reading your Web site. I especially enjoy your section on baptism. I'm a non-Reformed presbyterian (yeah, yeah I know haha)...and agree with most of what you said. However, I disagree with some of the comments you made concerning Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. I would like to clarify that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians do not necessarily believe in baptism as a "magical rite" as you hinted. Catholics don't believe that it's the magical wording that affects change, rather, they believe it is the power of the Spirit of God. They do believe it needs to be Trinitarian (much like baptists require immersion) but that's different than a magical incantation in my opinion. The sense I got from the article is that you believed that Catholicism teaches ritualism and magical arts style of sacramental theology. I will give ya the benefit of the doubt ;) but wanted to make sure you were aware of their teachings:
1) In Catholicism, baptism is linked with faith by definition (quote from Catholic Catechism):
1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."
Your article assumes that they hold that infants and young children cannot have faith. Some folks who believe in infant baptism (myself included) hold infants to have faith. So, it can be said, though we hold to paedobaptism, we ALSO hold to credobaptism because we believe infants of the faithful also possess faith. With no sins, no remission of such or repentance is needed, thus no need for confession before baptism. Only the faith which exists within.
2) Another quote demonstrating that the Holy Spirit is what accomplishes God's plan through Baptism, not magical words per se (also quoted from Catechism):
1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. The baptized have "put on Christ." Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.
3) Also, you noted in your article that Roman Catholicism is exclusive in its baptism. That isn't technically correct. They accept baptisms from ANY denomination as long as it is in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Trinitarian Formula) and even allow laymen to baptize depending on the circumstances. This would be an area of your article to consider updating for accuracy if you deem my suggestions to be warranted. The citation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is as follows:
1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a nonbaptized person, with the required intention, can baptizeNT , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.
I don't want to write too much, and I value your resources and time. Also, if I misrepresented your teachings or your writings, I apologize upfront. I just wanted to bring these things to your attention with the hopes that we all go toward truth together. Thus in the spirit of your website, I offer up my suggestions for more accurate description of Roman Catholic belief regarding baptism. Thanks guys. Your website is awesome and I love reading what you offer!!! Keep up the good work
Strength and Honor in Christ,
Orthodocksee
EDIT: I apologize for posting this on the wrong section...I didn't see the other sections until it was too late!
I've really enjoyed reading your Web site. I especially enjoy your section on baptism. I'm a non-Reformed presbyterian (yeah, yeah I know haha)...and agree with most of what you said. However, I disagree with some of the comments you made concerning Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. I would like to clarify that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians do not necessarily believe in baptism as a "magical rite" as you hinted. Catholics don't believe that it's the magical wording that affects change, rather, they believe it is the power of the Spirit of God. They do believe it needs to be Trinitarian (much like baptists require immersion) but that's different than a magical incantation in my opinion. The sense I got from the article is that you believed that Catholicism teaches ritualism and magical arts style of sacramental theology. I will give ya the benefit of the doubt ;) but wanted to make sure you were aware of their teachings:
1) In Catholicism, baptism is linked with faith by definition (quote from Catholic Catechism):
1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."
Your article assumes that they hold that infants and young children cannot have faith. Some folks who believe in infant baptism (myself included) hold infants to have faith. So, it can be said, though we hold to paedobaptism, we ALSO hold to credobaptism because we believe infants of the faithful also possess faith. With no sins, no remission of such or repentance is needed, thus no need for confession before baptism. Only the faith which exists within.
2) Another quote demonstrating that the Holy Spirit is what accomplishes God's plan through Baptism, not magical words per se (also quoted from Catechism):
1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. The baptized have "put on Christ." Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.
3) Also, you noted in your article that Roman Catholicism is exclusive in its baptism. That isn't technically correct. They accept baptisms from ANY denomination as long as it is in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Trinitarian Formula) and even allow laymen to baptize depending on the circumstances. This would be an area of your article to consider updating for accuracy if you deem my suggestions to be warranted. The citation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is as follows:
1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a nonbaptized person, with the required intention, can baptizeNT , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.
I don't want to write too much, and I value your resources and time. Also, if I misrepresented your teachings or your writings, I apologize upfront. I just wanted to bring these things to your attention with the hopes that we all go toward truth together. Thus in the spirit of your website, I offer up my suggestions for more accurate description of Roman Catholic belief regarding baptism. Thanks guys. Your website is awesome and I love reading what you offer!!! Keep up the good work
Strength and Honor in Christ,
Orthodocksee
EDIT: I apologize for posting this on the wrong section...I didn't see the other sections until it was too late!
